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Healing can be a complex (and sometimes messy) topic – and one of the biggest “elephants in the room” that many of us try to outrun is trauma. We can cut out inflammatory foods, optimize our supplements, and do all the “right” health habits… but sometimes the most healing change is far less glamorous: setting boundaries with toxic people (or leaving toxic relationships altogether).
In this episode of the Thyroid Pharmacist Healing Conversations podcast, I spoke with Dr. Nadine Macaluso – also known as Dr. Nae – a therapist specializing in trauma, healing, and personal transformation. Many people recognize her life story from The Wolf of Wall Street, where the character that represents her (Naomi) experienced a high-profile trauma bond firsthand, and later reinvented her life to help others break free from trauma bonds and rebuild healthier relationships.
If you’ve been working on your thyroid and autoimmune health and sensing that your relationships (or chronic stress at home) might be part of the puzzle… this conversation offers powerful insight, validation, and practical next steps.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
- What a trauma bond actually is (and what it isn’t). A trauma bond isn’t “bonding over shared trauma” – it’s a toxic, emotionally attached relationship where one partner seeks power and control and the other loses autonomy. Dr. Nae explains how these bonds can exist between romantic partners, friends, bosses, and even within families.
- Why “empaths and healers” are often targeted – and why it’s not your fault. Many women in trauma bonds score high in agreeableness and conscientiousness: empathy, loyalty, strong morals, and the willingness to work things through. In an unhealthy dynamic, those strengths get weaponized – and the victim often gets blamed (including by herself).
- The “Romeo mask” vs. “Dirty John” behavior pattern. Dr. Nae breaks down intermittent reinforcement: the cycle where a partner is cruel and controlling much of the time, then returns to being charming and loving just enough to reignite hope. That “hope hook” keeps people stuck far longer than they ever expected.
- Red flags that aren’t romantic, but controlling. Jealousy framed as “love,” constant tracking/texting, broken promises, boundary-pushing, and “all my exes are crazy” stories can be early warning signs. If it feels too good to be true, Dr. Nae shares why it often is.
- How to leave safely (without tipping your hand). Leaving can be the most dangerous time. Dr. Nae explains why planning matters, emphasizing the need for securing documents, money, credit, legal support, and trauma-informed care behind the scenes while acting normal – then making a safe exit.
- What healing looks like after you leave. Getting out is a relief, but it can also bring grief, C-PTSD symptoms, anxiety, depression, and physical inflammation from prolonged stress. Dr. Nae shares why real recovery includes turning the mirror back toward yourself, with nervous system regulation, attachment healing, and identity rebuilding.
Freebies
- Download the first chapter of Dr. Nae’s book for FREE
- Find Dr. Nae’s free assessments, checklists, and quizzes here
Guest Resources/Connect with Dr. Nadine Macaluso (“Dr. Nae”)
- Run Like Hell: A Therapist’s Guide to Recognizing, Escaping, and Healing from Trauma Bonds by Dr. Nadine Macaluso – At 22, Nadine Macaluso married Jordan Belfort (the real-life “Wolf” in the movie Wolf of Wall Street) and watched a storybook romance turn into a nightmare of infidelity, narcissistic abuse, greed, and addiction. In Run Like Hell, she weaves her personal experience with her clinical expertise to explain the psychology of “pathological lovers,” why empathetic women are often targeted, and how to leave a trauma bond safely. She also lays out a roadmap for healing from complex PTSD so survivors can rebuild self-trust and go on to create healthy, thriving lives.
- Learn more at Dr. Nae’s Website: Website
- Follow Dr. Nae on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, X, Pinterest, Linkedin and Youtube
- Community support groups like Dr. Nae’s Thriver Community can offer ongoing validation and regulation support, especially during separation and recovery.
- Dr. Christine Cocchiola: Clinician & Coach specializing in the traumatic experiences of adult and child victims of Coercive Control / Narcissistic Abuse
Other Tools and Resources
- Trauma-informed therapy – A safe, supportive space to process relational trauma, rebuild self-trust, and develop emotional regulation tools.
- Trauma bond safety/escape planning – Documentation, resource-building, legal planning, and leaving strategies done discreetly to reduce risk.
- Legal support (attorneys experienced with high-conflict personalities) – Critical when separation involves coercive control, custody issues, or financial manipulation.
- Co-parenting communication tools – OurFamilyWizard is an app that can help reduce emotional escalation and create accountability when co-parenting.
- Strategies to interact without feeding the power dynamic – Use the BIFF communication framework (Brief, Informative, Firm, Friendly), a boundary-based method for interacting without feeding the power dynamic. Consider ”gray rocking” / “stoic” responding, the practice of minimizing emotion and reaction to reduce manipulation and control attempts.
Books and Articles About Trauma Bonds, Narcissistic Abuse, Relational Trauma, and the Mental Health and Autoimmune/Thyroid Connection
- Women Who Love Psychopaths: Inside the Relationships of Inevitable Harm With Psychopaths, Sociopaths & Narcissists by Sandra L. Brown
- Fawning: Why the Need to Please Makes Us Lose Ourselves–and How to Find Our Way Back by Ingrid Clayton
- BIFF: Quick Responses to High-Conflict People, Their Personal Attacks, Hostile Emails, and Social Media Meltdowns by Bill Eddy
- Why Women Have More Thyroid Disorders: The Izabella Wentz Safety Theory
- Root Causes of Depression and Hashimoto’s
- Strategies to Overcome Anxiety with Hashimoto’s
- Are You Going Crazy or Is It Just Your Thyroid?
- Are Your Adrenals Sabotaging Your Health?
Get the Full Episode Transcript
Let’s Connect!
- Follow me on Instagram: @izabellawentzpharmd
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- Subscribe & Review: If you loved this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or rate it on Spotify!
Got questions? Drop them in the comments! 🙂
About Our Host
Dr. Izabella Wentz
Dr. Izabella Wentz is a compassionate, innovative, solution-focused integrative pharmacist dedicated to finding the root causes of chronic health conditions. Her passion stems from her own diagnosis of Hashimoto’s thyroiditis in 2009, following a decade of debilitating symptoms.
Dr. Izabella Wentz has written several best-selling books, including the New York Times bestseller Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis: Lifestyle Interventions for Finding and Treating the Root Cause, the protocol-based #1 New York Times bestseller Hashimoto’s Protocol: A 90-Day Plan for Reversing Thyroid Symptoms and Getting Your Life Back, the Wall Street Journal bestseller Hashimoto’s Food Pharmacology: Nutrition Protocols and Healing Recipes to Take Charge of Your Thyroid Health, and Adrenal Transformation Protocol. Her latest book, IBS: Finding and Treating the Root Cause of Irritable Bowel Syndrome, will be released on March 17, 2026, and is available for pre-order here.
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About Our Guest
Dr. Nadine Macaluso, known to her patients as Dr. Nae, is the real-life inspiration behind Naomi Belfort’s character in the movie The Wolf of Wall Street. She survived a turbulent eight-year marriage to Jordan Belfort (the “Wolf”), marked by abuse, greed, and trauma.
Following her experiences, Dr. Macaluso relocated to California. Her journey of trauma and healing inspired her to return to school at age 39, where she earned her Master’s in counseling and a Ph.D. in somatic psychotherapy. She further specialized with a two-year postdoctoral training in the Neuro-affective Relational Model (NARM).
As a therapist, Dr. Macaluso combines her education and personal experiences to help others heal from trauma. Her practice focuses on assisting patients in connecting with their authentic selves, fostering confidence, resilience, and agency. Dr. Macaluso firmly believes in the potential for post-traumatic growth, instilling hope in her patients and guiding them to reach their potential in life and love.
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